The Link Between Bullying and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder: Interview

            There are many bullying prevention organizations all across New York City that should be able to help children in need.  Because there are so many local organizations and centers that deal with children who have developed mental illnesses, it should be rather simple for patients to get in contact with doctors and experts who often treat children with illnesses, providing them with research that has already been conducted, such as clinical trials.  When it comes to bullying and finding out about mental illnesses such as PTSD that may develop from a bullying trauma, not many locations or doctors are willing to speak on that matter.  In fact, it took me almost two months to actually get a mental illness institution to simply give me a call back, just for them to tell me that they did not have the resources nor the information to help me with my research.  Although, on May 4, 2018 I finally found a child psychiatrist who was willing to let me in on his ideas and provide me with the knowledge that no other doctors, institutions or organizations were willing to give me.

            I went to a Police Athletic League event where Dr. Byron Young was talking about children and their relationships with others.  I went to the event to speak to the after school teachers.  After the event was over, I approached Dr. Young to ask what kind of doctor he was and when he replied with “I am a child psychiatrist”,(Young) I felt hope and I finally saw the light after all the struggles I faced with this research project.  He seemed really intrigued when I asked if he was willing to be interviewed for a research project revolving around bullying and developing PTSD, and he seemed really intrigued and told me he was willing to help me with whatever I needed and to get me in contact with other doctors as well.  Because it was such a short notice, I couldn’t do a face to face interview, but he took time out of his busy day to let me conduct a phone interview and I was extremely grateful. 

            Throughout the entire interview, Dr. Young used certain terms and sometimes informal language so that I could understand his answers and so that I could relate more.  For example, he would say things like “I think it’s cool…” and “yo you gotta do better…”, which are terms that I use when I speak to my friends.  Throughout the entire interview, I felt as if we were having a friendly intellectual conversation, rather than him just telling me the facts straightforwardly.  Because of his use of language I felt more comfortable and didn’t feel so tense and shy since he made me feel like my opinion mattered.  As I was asking questions, he appeared to be genuinely interested in what I had to say.  Not only did he give me thorough answers, but he didn’t just say the first thing that came to his mind, he thought deeply before he spoke his answers out loud.  For example, instead of just giving bullet point responses, he gave an example for every point that he made.  It could be because he possibly didn’t want to give me false information, but I believe that our discussion definitely peaked his curiosity.

            It seems that his motives are what made him so willing to work with me.  He said “I’m a psychiatrist because one, I like the idea of helping people regain the sense of value in who they are, regain deem of humanity.  Still see themselves as beautifully human.  I thinks its cool to help people expand their perspectives to something more positive and more adaptive.  I think that as a black doctor from an really under resourced community medicine has not always been very kind and psychiatry particularly has not been very kind to people of color”(Young).  I gathered that even though it is his job to help others, he actually loves what he does and would like to share and spread his knowledge to others who want to learn or who simply need it for research.  While talking about his inspirations his tone changed from gentle to benevolent.  At first he was calm and serious, but as soon as he began to talk about his motives, his compassion and generosity began to show.  His tone proved to me that he is genuine, which made him more credible to me. 

            In addition, when I began to steer towards my research topic, I saw that his responses began to get more serious and longer.  For example, when I asked about general long term effects he has seen after a child has been bullied, he shared “lots of effects.  Some kids become depressed.  Some kids have anxiety, some kids get Post Traumatic Stress Disorder…”.  The second he said “Post traumatic stress disorder” my eyes lit up because I thought that there may be a possibility of my hypothesis being correct.  However, when I started to dig deeper into the PTSD aspect of the interview, his answers started to oppose my hypothesis.  He believes that the vast majority of children who get bullied don’t get PTSD, but it is possible and it has definitely happened before.  Though his response discouraged me a little, I realized that I’m merely trying to find a connection between PTSD and bullying.  Even though it’s not as common, it still happens and there are so many symptoms that prove it.  Therefore, I thought to myself that part of my findings could be that it is a fact that PTSD happens from bullying, despite it being out of the ordinary. 

            I noticed that Dr. Young used the word “notion” a lot.  I am sure most of us know the meaning of the word, but I looked it up anyway and its definition is “a general understanding; vague or imperfect conception or idea of something”(dictionary.com).  I realized that all his answers have yet to be proven.  He’s been answering my questions based on his own opinions and knowledge with children he has dealt with.  Because he mentioned that word so many times is why I began to be more understanding about the other sites that I tried to contact.  Maybe because this research has yet to be proven is why I had such difficulty finding background information and experts willing to discuss whether or not there is a connection between bullying and PTSD.  However, Dr. Young’s eagerness and willingness to contribute to my research project made me realize how confident he is.  Despite his opinions not being 100% proven yet, he still shared his ideas because he has helped many children and parents.  He knows what’s common and what isn’t when it comes to the effects that bullying brings to children, therefore, this can be a start for future research findings about bullying and PTSD.   

            Interviewing Dr. Young was a pleasure.  He is truly an admirable doctor from what I’ve heard.  Not only is he willing to help me and those in need, but he’s willing to share his knowledge with communities to help situations like bullying become noticed.  His confidence, tone, and use of language made me feel comfortable and important.  His choice of words also made me more intrigued in my own research because it proved to me that there is someone out there who cares about bullying matters and their possible effects.  I’ve gathered that there are many mental illnesses that are effects of bullying.  I believe that more research should be done and that other doctors and organizations should educate themselves and pay more attention to bullying and its effects because it can get rather serious.  Maybe it can start as a clinical trial to see how the brain works after a bullying incident to be able to tell why exactly PTSD is a possible result.  There are countless ways to approach the conduction of this research, but before it even starts, it needs to gain more awareness so that there will be a higher willingness to help with this research. 

Transcription: Interview Q&A

Institution: NYC Mental Health Service Corps, which is a part of Thrive NYC

• Has there been any personal ties that led you here, to this position?

– No, not really.

• Are victims of bullying reluctant to fight back? Where can they go for help?

– That’s a complex question.  It depends. It always depends.  Some kids who get bullied becomes bullies themselves.  Other kids who get bullied do not, they just take it and internalize it.  It really depends on the kid. I think there are some kids that are more likely to internalize things and there are some kids that will externalize.  So some kids take pain in and put it upon themselves and beat themselves up about it, where other kids take pain and just press it outwards and so I think that kids who are bullied are more likely to become bullies themselves.

• What are the general long term effects of bullying that you have seen develop over the years?

– Lots of effects.  Some kids become depressed.  Some kids have anxiety, some kids get Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Some kids commit suicide.  Some kids transfer schools and then deal.  And then there are some kids who are resilient.  They have been bullied and don’t necessarily have negative effects or outcomes, some kids don’t take it as bad.  There are lots of protective and risk factors.  Even when kids have a lot of protective factors sometimes they still have negative outcomes and when they have a lot of risk factors they still have positive outcomes.

• What inspires you about this work? Ex: is it the children, the cause itself or a personal experience etc.

– I’m a psychiatrist because one, I like the idea of helping people regain the sense of value in who they are, regain deem of humanity.  Still see themselves as beautifully human.  I thinks its cool to help people expand their perspectives to something more positive and more adaptive.  I think that as a black doctor from an really under resourced community medicine has not always been very kind and psychiatry particularly has not been very kind to people of color.  Lots of crazy experiments and misused of black bodies and it has been very sensitive to people of color.  I think that as a black man who loves black people it has a lot of medical and psychiatric knowledge.  The notion of bringing a respectful sensitive and re humanizing medical knowledge to under resource communities of color is very important to me.

• What does a successful day in this position look like to you?

–  It looks like doing some really cool educational talks with primary care doctors in the clinics that I serve.  All the clinics that I work in are for the most part in under resourced communities of color.  So the notion of teaching those doctors how to treat their patients around mental health very well and making sure they’re taking care of them and that they’re culturally sensitive and are well informed is really important.  A lot of primary care doctors who treat kids with mental health issues don’t have that extensive training, so I try to bring that in training to them.  It also looks like going to the various clinics and working with the social workers in the behavioral health clinics that we have and making sure that they’re doing culturally sensitive, evidence based, quality therapy with the young people in the community that they serve; making sure that they feel inspired and valued and that they transfer that inspiration and value to the young people that they work with.

• How can getting bullied lead to some sort of phobia that may impede children from living normal lives?

–  I think when a lot of kids get bullied it’s a vert encompassing situation, where they feel like it’s hard to not get tunnel vision on this abusive situation and so if you’re bullied in school, school can become a place of terror if you never know when this bully is going to attack.  It can make you get tunnel vision in a way that the only thing that you’re focused on is the bully and the consequences of bullying, and so you’re missing out on all the enjoyments in school, all your friends, the academics, so it can really be consuming.  If you have a cyberbully, which is also a big deal, it can be consuming even when you’re at home because you never know when they’re going to attack or what or where they may say it. As humans when something difficult happens we get that tunnel vision and that becomes the only thing that matters, and so you do miss out on all the enjoyment of life sometimes.  It may lead to shame, embarrassment, guilt, etc. 

• What are some ways to detect that bullying has been affecting a child?  What should be looked out for to make sure it is not having negative effects?

–  Parents should always check on their kids to see how things are going, how their relationships are going, how their friendship groups are going and ask those kinds of questions.  It’s important is having a close relationship in their children in a way that the child feels comfortable in opening up to you.  I know a lot of parents have this “ I’m an authoritarian, do what I say” situation, but you want to create a situation where you have a relationship that’s good enough where the kid will open up to you and feel like their opinion and their voice matters, so that your child knows that their voice matters and what they have to say matters.  I believe that if children are extra uncomfortable with going to school, always getting headaches, stomachaches and saying that they don’t want to go to school for whatever reason, and this never happened before, that’s a sign.  Or if you see your child being more isolated, their personality changes and so on, that may be a sign that something is going on.  For bullying some of the signs are your child having emotional distress in any way, you want to be able to see what’s going on.  Don’t hesitate to get help or get an evaluation check if you suspect something like that.  Even if you suspect something is going on and you can’t get a clear picture of what it is, getting it checked out couldn’t hurt.  Also, if your kid is getting beat up and comes home with bruises with weird stories that’s another sign.  Hearing about young people who are in abusive relationships and the parents don’t know that the partner is abusive, that can be a thing where the parent can say “I really like your girlfriend/boyfriend” and so they are less likely to open up to their parents because they seem to like them so much.  The notion of a continuous checking in is important.  Making sure kids feel heard.  If you see something like them going straight to their room, going to sleep right away, they’re not eating.  Those are signs that something is going on. 

• What are the main reasons you believe PTSD is an effect of bullying?  What situations have been brought to your attention that made this belief concrete for you?

–  I believe that the vast majority of people who get bullied don’t get PTSD, but there are definitely people who do because the bullying can be chronic and intense, so there are some people who do.  I believe the reason people get PTSD is because they feel traumatized and it’s an intense situation that really affects them; it takes their lives or their livelihoods or sometimes just the effects of acute stressful reactions and acute stressful situations and chronic stressful situations can all cause PTSD.  Sometimes after so long the body starts to accept traumatic situations and it starts to adapt and not be keyed up and triggered in that way.  PTSD is an extremely heightened stress, in many ways you get emotionally numb, you’re almost waiting for the trauma to happen.  Bullying is just an example of trauma that can lead to this sort of situation. 

• How may the perpetrator in the bullying situation have the same traumatic event as the victim, although they were the cause of it all?

–  A lot of bullies are people who got bullied themselves.  They may be people who witness abusive situations, so you see that phenomenon, folks like learning acceptable ways to deal with this.  When you talk about kids who get bullied, a “I’m going to get you before you get me” situations develops.  Somewhere the aggression gets them something that they want.  Whether it’s attention, externalizing their own difficult feelings and using bullying as a way to not focus on their own difficult stuff, or seeing it as a way that people handle stuff.  That goes for both physical bullying and internet bullying.  People see it as a way to self medicate themselves like “ I have difficult feelings so I’m going to put this on someone else.  Im going to aim my pain at other people so that I won’t have to feel these feelings.”

• What have been positive outcomes of bullying that you have seen in both the victim and the perpetrator?

–  I believe that sometimes when people are bullies, they get reprimanded in a way that that someone is addressing what the core issue is.  So if I’m going around bullying folks and people are like “yo you gotta do better”.  Maybe I have these issues and I externalize these issues by bullying, people are seeing that something is not right and that might be a way to get help, where as if I’m a person that has emotional issues that I keep inside folks might not know what’s going on.  So bullying is something that draws attention, and it may draw attention for me to get some help.  So I believe in those ways it’s good and it can address the underlying issue that’s leading to the bullying, so that’s a good thing.  Also, you may have a bully who’s already depressed and anxious and the bullying just added to it.  So you may have a kid since they see what’s going on they’re more likely to get help too. People are more likely to lend a helping hand because they see what’s going on.  So bullying can magnify situations that were already there, and in those ways it’s good.  Sometimes there are people who are resilient and come back stronger from adversity and sometimes adversity makes you stronger.  What if a kid was bullied and they got through it and they become an activist, like an anti-bullying activist.  There may be good stuff that comes from those kind of experiences, sometimes. 

• What are some unpopular opinions you have towards the topic of bullying?  Why do you believe those opinions are so?

– I guess an unpopular opinion would be that all of us sometimes have a little bully in us.  We may aim our pain at other people and our loved ones, friends, lovers and family.  So I think sometimes it’s easier to just say “bullies are evil” and start to like put people in categories saying “this person is a this or that” as opposed to seeing humans as dynamic people and we all have potentials to be good or bad.  And so this notion to be labeled as a bully, what about the part of us that can be labeled as a bully? If I’m focused on bullies are bad or like conservative Republicans are bad; the notion of like those are people too that maybe make decisions that I don’t agree with, but I can use that as a reminder to think “what am I doing stuff that may be in line with not good things.  Like I’m not a bully because I don’t bully all the time, but what about those times when I am a bully.  Can I take that energy and focus on how to make my own stuff better, as opposed to being judgmental about other people having struggles.  That’s one thing I’d say, this notion of us labeling people, we like to label people and then find pleasure in labeling people as “other” when we all have some stuff going on.  So even when people have struggles keeping in mind their humanity and that we could easily be there too.

Works Cited

“Notion.” Dictionary.com, Dictionary.com, www.dictionary.com/browse/notion?s=t.

Young, Byron.  Personal interview. 5 May 2018.